So I just recently made reservations and plans to attend the Golden Throne GT in Pleasanton CA (an hour east of San Fransisco). This post will cover the tournament itself along with the list I plan on bringing. All feedback is welcome and if anyone lives in Southern CA and wants to help me practice my army feel free to e-mail me!
The tournament is about 380 miles from where I live (I live in the Costa Mesa area) so I'm going to make a road trip of it with my wife (bless her soul) and go site seeing along the way and a few days after the tournament so if anyone knows any great touristy things to do, let me know as well. Sofar we have a Muir Woods and Alcatraz Tour booked. Anyway, on with the Tournament info...
Tournament overview:
The official web page for the Golden Throne Grand Tournament can be found here for those interested in going or reading up on it. Essentially, it's a 2000 point tournament that allows Double Force Org (including 2 sets of Allies/Fortifications as per BRB) as well as Forge World.
Missions:
| Round | Deployment | Scenario |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Vanguard Strike | Crusade (3 objectives) |
| 2 | Hammer and Anvil | Purge the Alien |
| 3 | Dawn of War | Big Guns Never Tire (5 objectives) |
| 4 | Vanguard Strike | The Scouring |
| 5 | Hammer and Anvil | Crusade (3 objectives) |
| 6 | Dawn of War | Big Guns Never Tire (5 objectives) |
| Championship | Dawn of War | Crusade (3 objectives) |
The army list:
This is a hybrid Mech/Foot list I was working on and I think it will do quite well. It has the resilience to not give up first blood easily while the Dark Reapers should guarantee me getting First Blood if my opponent fails to get it. The list also has enough mobility to get Line Breaker and hopefully enough firepower to get Slay the Warlord as well as enough scoring to get objectives.
2000 total
Eldar Primary: 1475
HQ: 170
-Farseer: 100
-Spiritseer: 70
Explanation: The Farseer is there to hopefully get Fortune or some useful Divination power (like Misfortune) while sticking with Guide/Prescience if all else fails. Guide/Prescience will help the Dark Reapers hit harder and help mitigate the Ritide's poor BS of 3 though I might try to include some Markerlight Drones on the Commander somehow to help out the Riptide.
The Spiritseer is there to unlock Wraithguard as troops and provide Conceal to the Dark Reapers for a 2+ cover save behind the Aegis without having to go to ground. Bonus if I roll any other useful powers.
Troops: 811
-Wraithguard:210
32(base)*5=160+50(5xD-Scythes)
-Wave Serpent:Scatter Laser, Holofields, Vectored Engines=150
-Dire Avengers:65
13(base)*5=65
-Wave Serpent:Scatter Laser, Holofields=135
-Dire Avengers:65
13(base)*5=65
-Wave Serpent:Scatter Laser, Holofields=135
-Windrider Jetbike Squadron: 51
17(base)*3=51
-Windrider Jetbike Squadron: 51
17(base)*3=51
Explanation: D-Scythe equipped Wraithguard seem amazing and I've heard/read amazing things about them. There is so much utility a unit with AP2 Flamers can give your army in addition to auto-penetrating or instant death on a 6. With a natural T of 6, this can be a problem unit to deal with for many armies, especially if my Spiritseer is with them and rolls good powers for them (depending on match-up). Ghost Walk Matrix and Vectored Engines are there because I had the points and want to take out any chance of failing terrain checks while giving the short ranged template weapons as much movement as possible. Essentially hold back to respond to incoming units and shoot with the Serpent or move flat-out and get near a target of opportunity like something sitting in a Bastion or what-not.
The Dire Avengers are there to be cheap scoring units and a place to get Wave Serpents. Wave Serpents are amazing and they last long enough so that my Dire Avengers will only have to get out when there is not much left to shoot at them hopefully. Jetbikes are there because they are a good, cheap and fast scoring unit to throw around and or get Line-Breaker.
Fast Attack: 152
-Warp Spiders:152
-Warp Spiders:152
19(base)*8=152
Explanation: Fast and potent firepower. Also, they score in Scouring and are a top notch denial/Line Breaker unit with all of their movement. Of anything in my list, this is probably what I am the most unsure about including as I personally make a point to kill enemy Warp Spiders in the first two turns so I seldom see what they can do and I assume my opponents will try to kill them dead ASAP as well so it might just be wasted points, who knows? Still, a very nice little unit to throw around the flanks or get line-breaker with.
Heavy Support: 342
-Dark Reapers:
30(base)*5=150+32(4X Star Shot)+10(Exarch)+10(EML)+10(
-Wave Serpent:110(base)+5(Scatter Laser)=120
Explanation: These guys will do the heavy lifting in the army and with the Tau Allies will be a win condition IMO. They all have S8 shooting to threaten vehicles and the S5 shots are great for any infantry while when Guided can threaten any Flyers as well. The Tau Commander (see below) will give them access to Ignores Cover and Tank/MC hunter rules which really makes them potent. Fast Shot on the Exarch makes the Icarus a great option as you now have 2 shots at BS5 (hopefully Guided) with Tank Hunter that also Ignores Cover, what's not to love about that? Keep them in a Wave Serpent with Farseer so they can be Fortuned first turn and be protected from enemy shooting...Then you have an extra Serpent to throw around and do stuff with as well. Added bonus that they are scoring in 2 of the missons (Big Guns).
Fortification: 85
30(base)*5=150+32(4X Star Shot)+10(Exarch)+10(EML)+10(
-Wave Serpent:110(base)+5(Scatter Laser)=120
Explanation: These guys will do the heavy lifting in the army and with the Tau Allies will be a win condition IMO. They all have S8 shooting to threaten vehicles and the S5 shots are great for any infantry while when Guided can threaten any Flyers as well. The Tau Commander (see below) will give them access to Ignores Cover and Tank/MC hunter rules which really makes them potent. Fast Shot on the Exarch makes the Icarus a great option as you now have 2 shots at BS5 (hopefully Guided) with Tank Hunter that also Ignores Cover, what's not to love about that? Keep them in a Wave Serpent with Farseer so they can be Fortuned first turn and be protected from enemy shooting...Then you have an extra Serpent to throw around and do stuff with as well. Added bonus that they are scoring in 2 of the missons (Big Guns).
Fortification: 85
-Aegis:85
50(base)+35(Icarus Lascannon)=85
50(base)+35(Icarus Lascannon)=85
Explanation: I know that 3++ did some math that said the Quad-Gun was the best for anti-air but ultimately, I think with a Fast Shot, Ignores Cover, Tank Hunter model, the Icarus is better hands down because of that extra shot. Much greater chance to just kill the target outright and that is what I am going for. Plus, Turn 1 I have a great anti-tank weapon that can reliably threaten things like Annihilation Barges and Land Raiders. I just think the S9 and AP2 is too good to pass up..
Tau Allies:440
-Commander: 195
85(base)+20(multi sensor suite)+15(puretide engram neruochip)+25(heavy Iridium)+5(Onager Gauntlet)+20(Velocity Tracker)+5(early warning override)+5(Target Lock)+15(missile pod)=195
-Riptide:185
180(base)+5(Ion Accelerator)+
-Riptide:185
180(base)+5(Ion Accelerator)+
-Kroot:60
6(base)*10=60
Explanation: The Commander is there to generally buff the Dark Reapers and tank for them with the 2+ armor and T5. I plan on keeping him a bit more forward so as to have to take the brunt of the shooting unless I fail LOS and if I am lucky, I can get Renew on my Spiritseer to heal lost wounds! Nothing like granting Ignores Cover with Tank/MC hunter to a unit like Dark Reapers! If I really wanted to work it out, I could also somehow move so that he can join a unit of Wraithguard with D-Scythes as they disembark from their serpent to make their weapons that much deadlier to any MCs/Vehicles that get too close (like Deep Striking Tomb Spiders). Ultimately, a very nice utility model that also has some decent AA capabilities and can intercept a separate flyer from the unit he is in thanks to Target Lock.
The Riptide is there because I had points and it seems like a solid unit, though I'm not sure how useful it will be without Markerlights (though Guide is sure to help). Essentially, it's a place to get a S8 or 9 AP2 large blast with Interceptor. Conversely, I can always throw it at someone as a speed bump or use its 4d6 movement option (on a 3+) to contest an objective.
The Kroot are the obligatory scoring unit that everyone needs to take for allies. Infiltrate or Outflank with Hound and try to hide as much as possible. Take an objective on the outskirts of the table or just go for Line Breaker.
The general plan is to set up a solid firebase with the Dark Reapers behind the Aegis while the rest of the army stays back to shoot/support the Dark Reapers or move out to engage key targets of opportunity. Ultimately, I think the list is shooty enough to not have to worry about Close Combat and mobile enough to be able to get/deny objectives. Some decent anti-air in there as well between the Icarus, Dark Reaper Flak Missiles, Tau Commander and Riptide.
So what do you guys think? Should I drop the Spiders or Riptide to make the Dark Reapers 10 strong or perhaps take another unit of them? Anyone else going to the Golden Throne? Any Southern CA gamers interested in helping me run the list through the ringer?
Another good point about the Tau Commander is that he has Night Vision which is also conferred to any unit he joins. With night fight being a 50/50 chance for turn 1, this can be a sneaky surprise for opponents when an Icarus reaches out on turn 1.
ReplyDeleteI think the Reapers have a lot of potential and a Wave Serpent provides the much needed turn 1 protection as they can move and shoot as normal. My biggest concern is their points cost; I always get a bit nervous putting so many points into such a small unit.
Spiders mobility combined with Guide can really help against fliers while the Riptide is also a reasonable anti flier piece. The only real drawback I see with a Riptide is when facing Space Wolves and Jaws of the World Wolf. I think Tau will be more popular and folks will be looking for ways to help counter Tau; Space Wolves seem to have some really good tools. But, I think overall the game can come down to certain matchups. If you never face JotWW, then the Riptide will have little to fear.
I'm a bit skeptical regarding 5 man DA units. If you don't lose the WS, it's not a big issue, but if you do, the DA unit is extremely exposed; low model count unit and pretty easy to eliminate.
4 Wave Serpents seems like a good balance. I prefer a Brightlance or two out of the four mainly due to the possibility of armor 13 and 14 vehicles, but this is minor quibble as you have good variety of other high strength weapons spread around.
I like the list overall. It's a bit small for my taste, but that most likely comes down to particular playstyles.
Indeed, Night Vision is very handy to throw around which is why I didn't buy it for the Dark Reapers =).
DeleteOverall, I was skeptical about the Dark Reapers as well but they just have SO much damage potential with ignoring cover and tank/MC hunter. Plus, they have good survivability with a natural 2+ cover save behind Aegis thanks to Conceal via Spiritseer. They also serve as a solid anti-air platform as the Exarch can Intercept a flyer with Icarus, Riptide/Commander can do the same with their own guns then in the shooting phase the unit can shoot normally (and Exarch has Flakk) for a potential of 4 dead flyers a player turn =).
I would have preferred to have 10 Reapers as they pretty much would erase a unit/vehicle a turn...But balance might be in order and the Warp Spiders might be worth it.
I was skeptical about 5 DAs as well but in my recent games, my opponents were too busy focusing on other targets to bother with them and when they did shoot them I just made cover/Jink saves and the Serpent Field helped as well. Serpents are SOLID now! I can always keep them in reserves as well and at least 5 WG are pretty survivable.
Also, I would have liked to have some Brightlances somewhere in there as well but ultimately, I don't foresee too many Land Raiders and I will have Fusion on the Riptide/Commander (Forgot to update list to show that). Besides, the Reapers /Wraithguard can handle big things (hopefully).
Thanks for the feedback, I still need to try the list out a bit according to theory hammer it seems like it will do ok =).
The only foe that I would forsee this list having trouble against would be pure tau as markerlights will make your almighty coversave worth nothing and it will boil down to a shootout, but at the same time your serpents would give you an assault potential to harrass with the dire avenger serpents and dive in headlong with the wraithscythes so I'd say that it's solid. Close combat is unnecessary these days anyway, all I have are two wraithlords for the role.
ReplyDeleteBut where's the jetbikes? Most people are not prepared to handle that mobility! Why waste a perfectly good way to spam objective grabbing?
I hear you on the Tau issue but I've found that if I stay 37" from Marker Lights and kill them with my 60" Serpent guns or 48" Dark Reapers, it's generally not a problem. Plus, against most Tau shooting I will be getting a 2+ armor save anyway (Tau Commander up front taking the shots for the Eldar...For my greater good).
DeleteRegarding Jetbikes, I wanted to include a unit and I might try to move some stuff around to do it but I didn't think they were essential for this army. I will have to test the list out and see how I feel about the scoring units, for sure.
Serpent guns are 70" range, even better. And pathfinders may be your only small threat so you'll probably handle it readily.
ReplyDeleteThe only real weakness with the tau is that they get stuck to their gunline and really can't take those far off objectives, as an eldar player you are not damned to the same weakness when some of the best across field objective grabbers at minimum points are at your disposal. You've already got the spiders to soften up their arrival and there's an awful lot of objective games where they could give you that vital edge.. But if your confident in your serpents then you could be right. I honestly just love the looks on my opponents faces when I zoom those bikes (dragon riders) across the board and grab what they knew for certain to be theirs.
Yeah, 48" is ridiculous range for bikes to get where they need to go. I'm actually looking at a Necron list with 2x destroyer lords, 3x6 Wraiths, 3x Annihilation barges and 4x5 Warriors in Nightscythes as being the army to beat..I'll prob have to shoot his Barges and Flyers out of the sky then run from the Wraiths and get objectives or something.
DeleteHello! I played against you in the pasadena tourney when the new codex first dropped. I was the player with the avatar who did not want to live. I will be going to the GT as well, and I would like to try out some far-fetched lists out. Email me when you are available to play!
ReplyDeleteHeya, nice to hear from ya! Your avatar surely didn't want to live as even after you rolled badly for a bunch of saves you rolled earlier in the round you managed to roll 4 1s for one batch of saves when he only had one wound left =(.
DeleteI'll email you in a bit, I look forward to throwing down and trying some lists out!
Heya Justin, not sure if I was able to email you, google is being kind of funny. E-mail me at mortetvie13@gmail.com to get a game in!
DeleteI'm going to be facing my first necron list this saturday. It sounds scarily similar to what you just described. I'll be taking it on with:
ReplyDeleteEldrad
3x Spiritseers w/wraithstone forge
10x Wraithguard
5x Wraithscythes
5x rangers
3x Windriders w/cannon
3x Windriders w/cannon
Waveserpent w/HF/ScatterL
2x Wraithlords w/2xBL & Glaive
3x War Walkers w/BLs
What are your thoughts on that? My last list had Dire Avengers, Jetlocks and Spiders instead of Wraithscythes and Spiritseers. 3 Victorious slaughters so far.
Your list will probably do OK because Wraithlords are kind of hard to take down in general..Just watch out for Mind Shackle Scarabs, those are a pain. If anything, you can charge Wraiths with Wraithlords/Wraithguard and have Mind Shackle Scarabs trigger first (you choose order of operations on your turn) so a WG model is targeted then challenge with your Wraithlord and kill his Necron Overlord in a challenge.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise, everything else should be able to shrug off the Gauss weapons decently well and getting some good Telepathy powers can really mess with his Wraiths (especially if you have the -3 ld power).
Let me know how it works out!
Re: The Spiders - they're one of my favorite units, because their withering hail of high S shots can injure pretty much anything. Add to that that they're fast enough to get into those hard to reach places and get some rear armor and/or get around cover, I love them.
ReplyDeleteIf you're worried about them surviving the first few turns, why not have them be one of the units in reserve? Then they can arrive midfield wherever they're most needed without getting shot before they get off a round of shooting. Also, even after Deep Striking, they can always jetpack/run/warp jump to safety.
So as to that list, the necron player never showed up, but I had a really close game with a gray knight player, followed by a dark angels/mech guard list almost table me.. I used Eldrad's warlord trait and hid my wraiths and seers in a forest, while my wave serpent was out of sight. First turn I lost all 10 of my wraithguard which was rather startling.. Also when I throttled my wave serpent out of cover and disengaged my wraithscythes to take care of the 10 terminators suddenly in my backfield and wouldn't you know I fail my voice of twilight roll and stand there looking stupid as his leman russ/a million other things had free range on them. The objective was the relic and literally the only unit left on the table at the end of it was my unit of wraithscythes who had burned away every trace of opposition on the hilltop and failed to kill a single rifle marine in melee one too many times.. I ended up having that squad almost save my game, giving me the only fighting chance that was available.
ReplyDeleteSo all in all, it's somewhat tough to get their waveserpent close to the truly desireable foes, unless their cocky terminators, but as long as your smart with the serpent then they usually can join the wraithguard in seizing the middle ground or just torch key enemy units. Even when stranded with enough cover and hopefully a good telepathy power as your spiritseer's backup, seeing as voice of twilight is essentially mandatory for those critical extra inches. So far, they're staying in, mainly because people just can't handle wraithguard. Plain and simple.. Except the dark angels.. they kind of suck, lol.
I think that not having ready access to Fortune really makes taking 10 man footslogging Wraithguard less viable as the guaranteed re-rolls to saves made Wraithguard the hard nut to crack that they were.
DeleteIf you don't take the Iyanden supplement, Conceal from a Spiritseer and Stealth from Baron should give you a 2+ cover save in area terrain so that might help offset their vulnerability to shooting.
Glad to see you put the D-Scythe Wraithguard to good use, they are a huge threat to just about anything.
I roll with Eldrad first and have been lucky getting fortune 5/6 times. If I fail to roll it then I focus my spiritseers on getting protect and immediately move to out of range cover and play it safe, but there's very few combinations that aren't awesome, fortune or no... but yeaahhh, your very right. I wish I could somehow have more rolls on runes of fate..
ReplyDelete