With the new codex out, I see a lot of potential army lists but I am not settled on what a good list will generally look like. Ultimately, we will need to play a lot of games and figure out what works and doesn't work for us as Eldar players so this post is going to explore an army list using our new Vehicles and Flyers.
First off, there is a 1500 tournament coming up tomorrow where I expect to face some decent competition with a wide range of armies. This seems to be the ideal environment to put some units through the ringer. Also, from various people, I've heard mixed results about the Flyers and such but virtually everyone has been praising the changes made to the Wave Serpents, therefore I know I want to try a list with some of the new Flyers and Wave Serpents to see for myself. With that in mind, this is the list I came up with:
Eldar 1500:
HQ: 150
-Autarch:145
70(base)+15(Bike)+10(Fusion)+10(Laser Lance)+40(Mantle of Laughing god)+5(Banshee Mask)=150
Explanation: An Autarch is not a bad buy for a Mech army to help modify reserve rolls and this set-up offer's some utility with a re-rollable 2+ Cover save, Hit & Run, Fusion gun and Laser Lance...Survivable, good tank and unit hunting ability. Might be a bit risky since Slay the Warlord and First Blood will be up for grabs with this guy but when properly hidden he should be fine.
Troops: 600
-3xDire Avengers: 195
13(base)*5=65
-3xWave Serpent: 405
115(base)+5(Scatter Laser)+15(Holo Fields)=135
Explanation: Davu squads from the old codex, essentially. I am going to try and see how viable this unit is along with if Holo Fields are necessary for Serpents and how effective the Serpents can be at just hanging back and shooting things.
Fast Attack: 340
Crimson Hunter Exarch: 180
160(base)+20(Exarch)=180
Crimson Hunter: 160
160(base)
Explanation: I got 2 of these guys and I want to try them out...The model is so cool I just hope they don't suck. Already I am thinking about ways to ensure their survivability/utility and I know that things like the Quad Gun must die first ASAP and then the Flyers will need to be maneuvered/positioned effectively to avoid enemy fire. These guys are Hunters, not Fighters it seems so let them hunt vulnerable targets...I know I could probably drop them for a lot more troops but this is an experiment, after all.
Heavy Support: 410
2xFire Prism: 270
125(base)+10(Spirit Stones)=135
Night Spinner: 140
115(base)+25(Crystal Targeting Matrix)=140
Explanation: Fire Prisms were always solid tanks and now that they don't need to be used as a pair to make a more powerful shot it is almost like each new Prism is worth 2 of the old ones. I like the idea of their S9 Lance shot so I want to give them a go and see how useful they are while the Night Spinner has been revamped and I think it deserves a shot as well. I'm mainly looking forward to keeping Night Spinner in reserves or well hidden, moving 30" in a turn and using the Crystal Targeting Matrix to use the Torrent weapon on a vulnerable enemy position...Like say a wall of Chimeras or something (considering it will be S8).
So that's the list I'm working with. This list is an experiment in (1) seeing how survivable the new tanks are; (2) How effective our new flyers are; (3) how useful Crystal Targeting Matrix is; (4) how useful an IC with the Mantle might be; (5) how useful the new Fire Prisms/Night Spinners are and last but not least; (6) if Davu is still viable. Any comment and feedback on the list along with personal experiences with the above units or loadouts is greatly welcome!
I think you can only take one exarch upgrade per army for the crimson hunters. looking forward to seeing how your autarch plays out. Ive had a couple of games now and I can say the wave serpents are awesome. good luck.
ReplyDeleteWow I just read that in the codex...What a retarded limitation! "One Crimson Hunter per detachment..."
DeleteKelly, sometimes I just wonder what you were smoking when you write some of your rules =(.
Well I guess I'll have 20 points to give some upgrades =/.
upgrade your crimson hunter exarch with some powers to see how they perform. perhaps switch his brightlances to star cannons to see how they work as well? cant see any where else to spend those points.
DeleteI just put 2 Spirit Stones on my Prisms..I think the Flyers are best with the S8 weapons to hunt other flyers and to help with some anti-vehicle shooting.
ReplyDeleteComment disappear?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, good luck and take good notes, especially your experience with the new fliers!
I've also got a local RTT (2000 points single FOC), so I'll definitely be interested to read your findings. Our lists have a lot of similarities. Here is what I have in comparison to yours.
ReplyDeleteMaugan Ra
2 x 5 Dire Avengers
2 x Wave Serepnts, t/l Brightlance, Holofield
2 x 10 Guardians
2 x Wave Serpents, t/l Scatterlaser, Cannon, Holofield
1 x Crimson Hunter
1 x 3 War Walkers, 4 Scatterlasers, 2 Starcannons
1 x 1 Nightspinner, Crystal Targeting Matrix, Holofield
1 x Wraithknight, Sunncannon, Scatterlaser, Scatterfield
1 x ADL w/ Quad Gun
Hope you did well, Charlie. I ended up placing best overall with my army.
DeleteThings to note:
-Wave Serpents are AMAZING! Their firepower is crazy and they are very survivable still with Holofields and shield. I'm sold on Scatter Laser+Shield shooting.
-Night Spinner was awesome, it did so much for me compared to Fire Prisms...I'm not sold on prisms. 135 for a single S9 Lance seems like such limited utility and that is what I run them for-anti-tank. I'll be taking Night Spinners over them from now on. The moving Flat-out and CTM with the Torrent gun is huge!
-Crimson Hunters were OK. Not that great...Anything with Skyfire+Interceptor is pretty much going to kill them which sucks, they are SO fragile and the epitome of what a glass hammer looks like. They are nice otherwise.
Battle report to follow, I plan on trying out Wraithguard heavy Eldar soon with possible Riptide/Tau allies. Avatar or Wraithseer (if people let me play), Riptide, 3x Wraithlords or Wraithknights should be fun =).
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ReplyDeleteThanks. Congrats on the Overall Win.
ReplyDeleteWe played the ATC mission format and had an entire ATC team show up. ATC plays three book missions simultaneously.
Game 1. Lost to IG/Tau. Tie two missions, but lost on kill points 9-8. Very close game that went 7 turns.
Game 2. Win against Mechdar. I took first turn and took down 3 Serpents on turn 1. It went pear shaped for my opponent and he conceded turn 4.
Game 3. Lost to Tau/SW. They are a fantastic counter to mechdar. It was really a forgone conclusion when I saw the matchup. Fun game, but sadly, unless my opponent played absolutely horrid, there was no way I'd win this. Broadsides are just that good and I could not stop them on turn 1.
I agree the flier is 'meh'. The Wraithknight is interesting. I'm going to play him a bit more as I think there is some potential with him; maybe not 300 points worth, but I'm not ranking him like the flier. My Nightspinner did very little, but it has potential and having some form of barrage is pretty important in this game.
The Wave Serpents were stellar in each game. They put out so much shooting and I'm finding that I use the Serpent Shield as a weapon every turn. Basically, I can downgrade to glances on turn 1 if going second, then I just rely on the 4+ cover save I get from skimmer/holofield rules Very solid tank.
However, I did take home best painted. I think a lot of people were excited to see a painted Wraithknigt and Crimson Hunter a week after their release
How did your warwalkers pan out? Does the battle focus make a big difference for them? I agree about the wave serpent they are simply amazing. I've been running 3 with 10 avengers in each and they evaporate anything that comes within 24 inch range.
DeleteI've also found the first warlord trait that allows you to reroll wound rolls of a 1 for a turn works great with mechdar. Really thinking an avenger list in wave serpents with Yriel has some potential for the guaranteed warlord trait.
With game three were the space wolves coming down in drop pods? Also with respect to broadsides (I've yet to play tau with new eldar) what do you think of the option for eldar to ally in their own wolves in a drop pod, perhaps with a rune priest and jaws and some melta/combimelta guns?
I honestly think that anything SW allies can do for Eldar, Eldar can do better on their own, for cheaper.
DeleteI've been looking over the Tau codex and see some very strong possibilities for allies, they just have SO much shooting/anti-air potential that Eldar pretty much lack =(.
I really want to get some games in against tau. I've got a mech list that I've had great success with so far but all that ignore cover shooting causes me some concern. I'm thinking that the wraith knight might be an answer to their strength 7 missle spam.
DeleteI've been scratching my head on how to deal with an entrenched broadside unit turn one. Wave serpents can reliably deal with the quad gun and even glance the skyray to death.
Its the drop pod coming down turn one or even blood angel vanguard vets coming in to tie up the broadside units that has me looking to marines right now.
If you can disable all of their markerlights ASAP, you will do fine. Serpent Shooting should be able to wipe out the pathfinders easily enough and the markerlight max range is only 36" so you can easily outrange them.
DeleteOne thing everyone should note is Markerlights do NOT remove cover from a unit, they only give a SINGLE unit firing the ignore cover rule so they still need to expend 2 markerlight tokens per unit that wishes to ignore cover.
The Wolves definitely came down in Pods. Lots of Melta.
DeleteOverall, I need to basically relearn how to play War Walkers. I tried the Shoot and Run ability in game 1 vs IG, but misjudged the distance and ended up being assaulted, wiping them out. They killed a Manticore and that was it. Game 2, they took out a Wave Serpent with ease, but then got vaporized as they were an obvious target. However,after my turn 1, the other eldar player ended up conceding (I dropped 3 out of 7 tanks turn 1). Game 3 they came in from Reserve and killed one SW squad and crippled a second one before the third squad came down and vaporized them with melta.
None of my games had terrain to where I could shoot and then move out of LOS, which is what makes this ability really clutch.
Broadsides were very scary. A squad of three Missile Broadsides are putting out 24 twin linked shots. It's not so much what ignores cover or ap (although that can matter depending on situation). The amount of firepower that one unit puts out is, well, really, really good. To put it into perspective, that Broadside unit is cheaper than the War Walker squadron (mine are 210 point: Scatterlaser/Starcannon)
I most likely won't run Space Wolves as an ally. Personally, I don't like the ally system, but acknowledge it's here to stay and am dipping my toes in it. I've run DE in my lists and now will be trying out Tau.
Scratching my head some more and I'm thinking the best non gimick way of dealing with broadside units turn one might be the Night Spinner with targeting matrix. Pump in some shots first with wave serpent shields to cut through the shield drones then pop the torrent template weapon down (might get rear armour on sky rays if lucky). If anything might change target priority of broadsides for a turn allowing you some breathing room going into turn two.
DeleteActually, I did exactly that in my third game (it was against Neil). Shield drones and one Broadside was gone and I tried the Night Spinner torrent shot as you described. However, I didn't get any '6' so he shrugged off the two wounds with ease and I lost my Nightspinner the next turn.
DeleteBroadsides can be frustrating but how I handle themreally depends on how they are equipped.
DeleteUltimately, you want to stay out of range of his 36" weapons as much as possible and especially the Markerlights. Use Serpent Shooting to take the Markerlight units out asap and then BS3 shooting Tau is meh.
Eventually you just focus fire units in his army from closest to farthest away spreading destruction like a spreading wildfire =). Units with long range like Hammerhead or Rail Rifle Broadsides can be focused down early on if you can, as well. Sometimes it just comes down to dice and positioning.
Nicely done. Battle report(s)? The wraithlord heavy list is still something I'm very interested in, especially with these new Iyanden rules allowing wounds to be restored and spiritseers to run around everywhere! I've also had visions of a mobile flank with say a nightspinner with crystal targeting matrix accompanied by a wave serpent with 5 wraithguard with their new flamers, situational perhaps, but definitely worth a shot in my book especially in more mechdar setups. Say with eldrad inside a tank somewhere to reposition half of your tanks for a full out assault deep into one flank to try to catch your opponent over-extended with some hunters and minimized windriders in reserves. I look forward to your continued wisdom.
ReplyDeleteI am working on my battle reports for the tournament and the next event I plan on bringing a bunch of Wraith units.
DeleteCrystal Targeting Matrix is pretty good on vehicles like the Night Spinner. Otherwise, I don't see a point in it unless you maybe want to do some fancy stuff with Vypers.
Wraithguard with D-Scythes sound VERY powerful. Other people that have used them have said the same thing.
Eldrad can be pretty good but I don't think the points are justified. His Warlord Trait is very nice, though. 2+ cover from going flat out might make him worth it...
My current vision is psychic power spam so as many as I can get into the spot. Eldrad is what made the list in the old game and he still has just as many chances to cast powers, and just as many chances to completely hold the list together. Invulnerable saves, cover saves, 2+ armor saves, the same strength 6 toughness, equal chances if not better for maybe a hundred more points after everything is shifted around, I'd even be comfortable without harlequins at this point favoring maybe a wave serpent and some minimized bike squads with warlocks waiting in reserve to arrive just as the enemy is closing in, maybe even a reserve list that rushes around the wraithwall like waves over a rock. Nothing like getting your opponent nice and comfortable with your slow moving phalanx only to completely take them off guard with insane ammounts of movement concentrated where they least expect it, combined with a warpspider drop team which has gained a significant buff to both destroying power and mobility which is all they'll need supported by so many mobile elements closing in at the same time, almost worth it to provide even greater cover to your tanks right as they rush in. Nothing, but win in this new codex. The wraith review will be much appreciated, With Iyanden being the side to be at the moment, which I am more than happy with, the options have been written deep.
ReplyDeleteOne additional thought: If the supplement trend continues do you think that the main codex was denied assault vehicles so that biel tan can bring back the banshees in serpents by itself?
Spamming Eldar powers seems like a solid tactic as they can definitely increase the effectiveness of other Eldar units and I think that was done on purpose. Regarding the supplements, I have no clue but one can hope! Banshees could really use that Assault Ramp, that's for sure.
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